Comments on Anuradha's Diary: Is Sinhala Unicode Incomplete?

සටහනෙහි අන්තර්ගතය නම් මරු,
අනේ මන්දා, ඩොනල්ඩ් ...

2008-05-06T13:28:00.000+05:30

සටහනෙහි අන්තර්ගතය නම් මරු,
අනේ මන්දා, ඩොනල්ඩ් මහත්මයා තාක්ෂණයේ දියුණුව ගැන වැරදි වැටහීමක් අරන් වගේ. 3rd Normal Form ගැන සහ දත්ත සමුදාය කළමනාකරණය ගැන මොහු අවබෝධකරගත්තේ නම් මෙවැනි කතා කරන්නෙ නෑ කියලයි මම සිතන්නෙ.
ඒ වගේම සිංහල යුතිකේත අසම්පූර්ණයි කියල මොහු දකින්නෙඔහුට වාසියක් අත් කර ගැනීමට බවයි මා නම් සිතන්නෙ

මා සිතන විදිහට නම් සිංහල යුනිකේත දැනට තියෙන විදිහ හොදටම හොදයි යන්නයි.

කියවන්නනම් ඕන කෙනෙකුට පුලුවන් කරන්න ඉන්නේ කව්ද ? U...

2008-05-04T15:04:00.000+05:30

කියවන්නනම් ඕන කෙනෙකුට පුලුවන් කරන්න ඉන්නේ කව්ද ? Unicode නිසා දැන් mobile එකත් සිංහල වෙලා.... Unicode is the way to go ! who says its not cross platform incompatible ?

රට ඉදිරියට යනකොට මේයක්කු ඒකට උදැල්ල දානවා. google එකේ සිංහල අවේ කොහොමද ? thanks to Unicode !

අපි සිංහලෙන් search කරන්නේ කොහොමද ?
thanks to Unicode !

අනුරාධ‍ගේ කීම හරි බව තමයි මගේ වැටහීම.සිංහල යුනිකෝඩ...

2007-09-06T14:24:00.000+05:30

අනුරාධ‍ගේ කීම හරි බව තමයි මගේ වැටහීම.සිංහල යුනිකෝඩිවලට පින්සිදුවන්න මම අද බේ‍ලොග් ලියන්නේ සිංහලෙන්.
මෙහි පලවුදෑ කියවීමෙන් ලැබුණු දැනුම බොහෝයි.ජයවේවා

හිතවත් අනුරාධ,
යුන්කෝඩ්බලට ස්තුතිවන්ත වෙන්න මම ...

2007-04-10T23:37:00.000+05:30

හිතවත් අනුරාධ,
යුන්කෝඩ්බලට ස්තුතිවන්ත වෙන්න මම අද සිංහලෙන් බ්ලොග් ලියනවා.
ඔබේ බ්ලොග් අඩෙවියේ පළ වූ දෑ කියවීමෙනුත් මට මේ සදහා බොහෝ තොරතුරු සොයාගන්න පුළුවන් වුණා. එයට බොහොම පින්!

Anuradha,
I understand that unicode stadard...

2006-04-16T06:28:00.000+05:30

Anuradha,
I understand that unicode stadard does not represent all the singhala characters. But it is possible to represent all of them using combinations. Would you be able to show those combinations ?(I mean a link), since I am not a language specialist. I could not find any document that tells this how characters can be generated with combinations. How can I find the singhala glyph table ?. I opened a unicode singhala font, but it shows the same what I see on unicode standard. Where are those glyphs defined ? Is it something hidden for the public ?
Because my application needs all the possible unicode combinations in singhala. I posted this at many places, but did not get any fair answer.

Pubudu

Well, I have to change my question regarding kombu...

2006-03-25T20:48:00.000+06:00

Well, I have to change my question regarding kombuva etc. showing after the consonant:
I believe that the font I have in my computer is an older version that was replaced by the newer Unicode font. So, my question is now, where are these fonts distributed at?

I went and read part of the Unicode standard and microsoft's pages on fonts.

Mr. Gaminitilleka may want to read the following pages by Microsoft:

About Open Type
On Ligature making
And the follwing two technical Reports by Unicode:
Unicode: The Unicode character proerty model
Unicode: How ligatures are made

Also, Unicode: the Unicode database might be a good reference point.

As you might see Mr. Gaminitillake, the arguments about the Sri Lankan standard is irrelevant. Thank you for leaving a link to the proposed standard on your site. I read it oo and it does not pose any problem for font designers. One thing that I disagree with the standard is that the Bureau has unnecessarily introduced a confusion about þaaluja sañyuga naasikyaya (I am using romanized Sinhala here -- a bit of my ego. Note that þ is not p but it is the dental voiceless plosive consonant).

We shold set aside this fruitless debate. Both you gentleman have one thing at heart: the progress of the Sinhala people in the era of Information Technology.

My two-cents worth:
I believe that making Sinhala fonts for the Latin-1 Extension Block is a better proposition than making them for the Sinhala Block. Having both is even better.

Disclosure:
I developed romanized Sinhala. It i...

2006-03-25T02:34:00.000+06:00

Disclosure:
I developed romanized Sinhala. It is mainly for users of Pali and Sanskrit outside of Sri Lanka.

My Congratulations:
After following this debate, I am finally convinced that ligatures are supported by Sinhala Unicode fonts.

Questions:
Since on my computers, the kombuva shows after the consonant, it is presumed that one needs a special driver to show Unicode Sinhala font correctly. Is this right? If so, where does one get the special software?

Another question more applicable to Pali transliterators in the US:
Is it possible for the group that developed Unicode font to port the font to match code positions of romanized Sinhala in Latin-1 code page? (This could help in graceful fallback of Sinhala to Latin-1 when the special font is missing).

For us, it would be a great help for all non-Sinhala speaking transliterators who can cross check their work against Sinhala font simply by switching fonts.

Perhaps providing an alternative Sinhala font mapped to Latin-1 code page has its compelling merits for the Sinhalese too.

The transliteration alphabet is essentially Icelandic added with the letters, ñ, µ, ç and ø.
It is as follows:
a æ i u
e o
á í ú ó (binduva)
k kh g gh ñ
c ch j jh ç
t th d dh µ
þ th ð ðh n
p ph b bh m
y r l v
z x s h
ø (muurdhaja layanna)
ä (visarjaniiyaya with a)
f (upadhmaaniiya)
q (jihvaamuuliya - Sinhala character is shaped like X and sounds like Greek X!)

Prenasalized letters are digraphs in romanized Sinhala. (Too bad. However, these are unimportant for us because Pali/Sans. do not have them. Stated here for completeness):
ñg, µd, nð, mb

I said:

Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri La...

2006-03-22T11:15:00.000+06:00
I said:

Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri Lankan Standard either.

This is good, and there is absolutely no need to "correct it".

If we have a standard for Sri Lanka only, it is unlikely to be supported by international software. But Sinhala Unicode being an international standard, every software written all over the world that suppport Unicode automatically support Sinhala.

Being an international standard, anyone living anywhere in the world can communicate in Sinhala Unicode. It has already become a reality thanks to the implementations. We have practically proved it through the Sinhala Unicode Group and elsewhere.

That's why I said SLS 1134 is an intermittent local standard, whereas Unicode is going to be the eventual international standard, although both are identical.

What do you mean by "
Donald is clearly on an o...

2006-03-22T09:22:00.000+06:00
What do you mean by "
Donald is clearly on an other agenda. Gald that none of the developers fall in to his trap."

TRAP

All the developers are in a mess without proper SLSI for Sinhala.

I am the only person exposing the truth.

I "quote"

The Chairman of ICTA is also the former chairman of CINTEC who created the current problem with Sinhala fonts. He is the least likely to do anything to resolve it, because he will then be exposing his earlier bungling.

"unquote"

You all are covering and messing more and more - your path is to distroy the Sinhala Language

I quote from your own text again and again

Quote
"Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri Lankan standard either."
unquote

This is the truth. I want to correct it.

Readers will have the freedom to read and decide.

--end of my postings--

Thank you for your reply, Anuradha.

Where c...

2006-03-22T07:02:00.000+06:00
Thank you for your reply, Anuradha.

Where can I get the Unicode enabler kit for Windows that you mention? I have Windows 98 (Reg. Ver. & SE), NT Server, Windows XP and Macintosh.

Your answer would be much appreciated.

JC

Well said Anuradha. I really appreciate what you a...

2006-03-21T18:21:00.000+06:00
Well said Anuradha. I really appreciate what you are doing.

I further read about Unicode on Unicode.org site. It clearly indicates there is nothing wrong with specification for Sinhala.

I found that Unicode FAQ pages answer questions raised by Donald.
Firstly 'Where is my character' FAQ explains that not all gyphs are encoded.
http://www.unicode.org/standard/where/
There are various good examples given. But the best example on that page is 'ch' is a considered a character in Slovak and Traditional Spanish. But it is not allocated a code point and instead uses 0063 and 0067 i.e. the code points for 'c' and 'h'. There are other examples for Indian scripts as well.

Secondly the claim by Donald that current spec will break sorting. I also thought that there is some truth to this. But not any more. Because see following page.
http://www.unicode.org/faq/collation.html
I quote:

--start quote

My script does not sort right because the characters were assigned to Unicode code points in the wrong order. What can I do about that?

A: There is a misunderstanding here: Linguistically meaningful sorting is done not by comparing code point values (an approach which would fail even for English), but by assigning multi-level weights to characters or sequences of characters and then comparing those weights on each level. There are many algorithms and implementations for this; the standard Unicode Collation Algorithm (UCA) comes with a default weight table for all assigned characters as well as a tailoring mechanism that describes how this table can be modified to conform to local conventions, where necessary.

--end quote

Donald is clearly on an other agenda. Gald that none of the developers fall in to his trap.

Answer to JC's question

I can't give...

2006-03-21T17:27:00.000+06:00
Answer to JC's question

I can't give a complete answer for the Sinhala Unicode enabler kit for Windows, as I use only GNU/Linux on my desktop. However, I have seen people installing it and rendering works after that. As far as I understand it, this kit installs a Unicode Sinhala font, adds Sinhala rendering to Uniscribe and also installs a keyboard driver.

To view Sinhala Unicode, you don't need the keyboard driver.

"DU" is registered in Unicode. I have alr...

2006-03-21T17:07:00.000+06:00
"DU" is registered in Unicode. I have already mentioned in the article that it is the sequence 0DAF ("da") followed by 0DDF ("papilla").

Explaination:

Strictly speaking "DU" is a grapheme rather than a character, and that's why it doesn't need to have a single code point. See this FAQ from the official Unicode site. According to the answer to the question 2 (quoted above, too):

The better word for what end-users think of as characters is grapheme (as defined in the Unicode glossary): a minimally distinctive unit of writing in the context of a particular writing system.

"DU" is a "minimally distinctive unit in writing" to an end user, therefore it's a grapheme.

0DAF ("da") followed by 0DDF ("papilla") is a "combining character sequence", which generates the grapheme "DU". See the answer to the question 1 of the same FAQ:

A combining character sequence is a base character followed by any number of combining characters.

0DAF ("da") is the "base character" here, and 0DDF ("papilla") is a "combining character".

Hope you have the unicode locations

Have yo...

2006-03-21T15:37:00.000+06:00
Hope you have the unicode locations

Have you seen Table 3 row 1 Latin Extended A and Table 4 row 1 Latin Extended B
(ISO /IEC 10646-(E))

"DU" is not registered in Unicode
That is why you are unable to give the location.

This FAQ page on official Unicode site explains why Mr Donald's "each character should have a unique code point" claim is a myth. Notably, the first two entries, and the example of a Devanagari (script used to write Hindi and Sanskrit) "ka" variation:

Quoting from that page:

Q: Does "text element" mean the same as "combining character sequence"?

A: No, this is a common misperception. A text element just means any sequence of characters that are treated as a unit by some process. A combining character sequence is a base character followed by any number of combining characters. It is one type of a text element, but words and sentences are also examples of text elements.

Q: So is a combining character sequence the same as a "character"?

A: That depends. For a programmer, a Unicode code value represents a single character (for exceptions, see below). For an end user, it may not. The better word for what end-users think of as characters is grapheme (as defined in the Unicode glossary): a minimally distinctive unit of writing in the context of a particular writing system.

For example, å (A + COMBINING RING or A-RING) is a grapheme in the Danish writing system, while KA + VIRAMA + TA + VOWEL SIGN U is one in the Devanagari writing system. Graphemes are not necessarily combining character sequences, and combining character sequences are not necessarily graphemes. Moreover, there are a number of other cases where a user would not count "characters" the same way as a programmer would: where there are invisible characters such as the RLM used in BIDI, compatibility composites such as "Dz", "ij", or Roman numerals, and so on.

Here are two more myths:

Unicode provide...

2006-03-21T10:38:00.000+06:00
Here are two more myths:

Unicode provides a unique number for every character

This is just playing with words by quoting one remote sentense. here is why:

First, this is supposed to be quoted from official Unicode site. However, the word "character" in this sentense has an implicit "basic" prefix, which is understood by anyone who has studied the standard in detail.

To put it more precisely, Unicode provides a unique code point only for basic "characters". Other characters are then be generated by sequences of them.

This is not something special for Sinhala. Most of the other Asian languages are also quite happy with basic code points.

Mr Donald: Answer the question - "DU" "Yansaya" "repaya" in four digits in
unicode

I have asked three times: "why four digits? what's wrong with six, eight or hundred?" And now I am going to ask for the fourth time.

Why not Ragazzo call this Crazy Sinhala Unicode SL...

2006-03-21T10:23:00.000+06:00
Why not Ragazzo call this Crazy Sinhala Unicode SLSI 1134

I quote from your text:

"Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri Lankan standard either."

--- you have admitted the fact your unicode is incorrect ----

Even arabic ISO/IEC 10646-1 1993
these were parts of characters (glyphs)
They found the problem and re did it
ISO/IEC 10646-1 1993

I QUOTE JUST ONE NUMBER FROM UNICODE ISO/IEC 10646-1 1993

Table 121 -row FE Arabic presentation form -A (....B)

BFDF = arabic ligature JALLAJALALOUHOU

I quote from unicode
If Sinhala is registered in Unicode paste a location for "DU"

I quote from Unicode Consortium webpage (www.unicode.org)

"quote"
What is Unicode?
Unicode provides a unique number for every character,
no matter what the platform,
no matter what the program,
no matter what the language.

Fundamentally, computers just deal with numbers. They store letters and
other characters by assigning a number for each one. Before Unicode was
invented, there were hundreds of different encoding systems for
assigning these numbers. No single encoding could contain enough
characters: for example, the European Union alone requires several
different encodings to cover all its languages. Even for a single
language like English no single encoding was adequate for all the
letters, punctuation, and technical symbols in common use..............

"unquote"

Answer the question ----- "DU" "Yansaya" "repaya" in four digits in
unicode
"Yaksha" = (word) therefore two sets of unicode numbers = Ya = ,
Ksha = .

You went and registered wrong sinhala character set in Unicode
Consortium. SLSI 1134
Now we all suffer and you ruin my language Sinhala.
We got to correct it to save Sinhala Language.
I request to join me and voice to correct the SLSI 1134.

I am reading this battle about Sinhala Unicode wit...

2006-03-21T10:04:00.000+06:00
I am reading this battle about Sinhala Unicode with some apprehension. I hope we could keep the rhetoric civil.

Your technical explanation seems reasonable and practical. You point to a link that has instructions on how to enable Sinhala Unicode for Windows: fonts.lk
I went to its Sample Sinhala Pages and see the Sinhala words mangled. (e.g. kombuva following the vyaçjanaya).

It seems that I need the code point sequencing software to fix the words.

Is there some place where all the characters that have their own code points and more importantly, those that would be generated by sequences of code points displayed? Or is this a job for the keyboard layout drivers?

Thank you.

Well said Anurudha. But I have doubt that Mr. Dona...

2006-03-21T06:55:00.000+06:00
Well said Anurudha. But I have doubt that Mr. Donald can understand this fact. because he is in his blind believes. As I see his final target is make Sinhala Unicode unpopular and give his system a validity.

His site called Akuru.org but I cant see any sinhala text on his site. Its a another subsidiary joke site of crazylanka

Comments on Anuradha's Diary: Is Sinhala Unicode Incomplete?

සටහනෙහි අන්තර්ගතය නම් මරු,
අනේ මන්දා, ඩොනල්ඩ් ...

කියවන්නනම් ඕන කෙනෙකුට පුලුවන් කරන්න ඉන්නේ කව්ද ? U...

අනුරාධ‍ගේ කීම හරි බව තමයි මගේ වැටහීම.සිංහල යුනිකෝඩ...

හිතවත් අනුරාධ,
යුන්කෝඩ්බලට ස්තුතිවන්ත වෙන්න මම ...

Anuradha,
I understand that unicode stadard...

Well, I have to change my question regarding kombu...

Disclosure:
I developed romanized Sinhala. It i...

I said:

Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri La...

What do you mean by "
Donald is clearly on an o...

Thank you for your reply, Anuradha.

Where c...

Well said Anuradha. I really appreciate what you a...

Answer to JC's question

I can't give...

"DU" is registered in Unicode. I have alr...

Hope you have the unicode locations

Have yo...

Here are two more myths:

Unicode provide...

Why not Ragazzo call this Crazy Sinhala Unicode SL...

I am reading this battle about Sinhala Unicode wit...

Well said Anurudha. But I have doubt that Mr. Dona...

Comments on Anuradha's Diary: Is Sinhala Unicode Incomplete?

සටහනෙහි අන්තර්ගතය නම් මරු, අනේ මන්දා, ඩොනල්ඩ් ...

කියවන්නනම් ඕන කෙනෙකුට පුලුවන් කරන්න ඉන්නේ කව්ද ? U...

අනුරාධ‍ගේ කීම හරි බව තමයි මගේ වැටහීම.සිංහල යුනිකෝඩ...

හිතවත් අනුරාධ,යුන්කෝඩ්බලට ස්තුතිවන්ත වෙන්න මම ...

Anuradha, I understand that unicode stadard...

Well, I have to change my question regarding kombu...

Disclosure:I developed romanized Sinhala. It i...

I said:Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri La...

What do you mean by "Donald is clearly on an o...

Thank you for your reply, Anuradha.Where c...

Well said Anuradha. I really appreciate what you a...

Answer to JC's questionI can't give...

"DU" is registered in Unicode. I have alr...

Hope you have the unicode locationsHave yo...

Here are two more myths:Unicode provide...

Why not Ragazzo call this Crazy Sinhala Unicode SL...

I am reading this battle about Sinhala Unicode wit...

Well said Anurudha. But I have doubt that Mr. Dona...

සටහනෙහි අන්තර්ගතය නම් මරු,
අනේ මන්දා, ඩොනල්ඩ් ...

හිතවත් අනුරාධ,
යුන්කෝඩ්බලට ස්තුතිවන්ත වෙන්න මම ...

Anuradha,
I understand that unicode stadard...

Disclosure:
I developed romanized Sinhala. It i...

I said:

Sinhala Unicode is not a Sri La...

What do you mean by "
Donald is clearly on an o...

Thank you for your reply, Anuradha.

Where c...

Answer to JC's question

I can't give...

Hope you have the unicode locations

Have yo...

Here are two more myths:

Unicode provide...